(disclaimer) My load notes and development data is not warranted safe in your rifle just because it was in my rifle(s). Therefore, what I present of my own load development experiments - my results and thoughts - is for educational comparative purposes only. Hence I use the term "load notes" and not "load data" in the sense of load "recipes" per se. Also any and all other reloading data presented here - or any and all reloading data linked from my site - must be treated cautiously. Consult several reputable reloading manuals for starting loads and then use normal, safe reloading practices to work up to maximum loads carefully and safely! I accept no responsibility for your safety.
On the 35 Whelen (standard chambering) - Reloder 15 Gets It Done!
For the 35 Whelen [Ackley Improved version and 350 Remington Magnum too] I have found that the best powder to give me the greatest velocity with the least signs of excess pressure is Reloder 15. This seems true for all bullets I have. I have pushed the Hornady round nose 250 gr. to a hair over 2700f.p.s (instrumental reading)in experimental testing. This bullet seems to produce less pressure than other 250 grains (even some 225 gr. weight bullets tested) with the same powder charge.
This observation was verified in two different rifles and suggested that about 2 grains LESS of Reloder 15 was necessary for safe pressures with other jacketed bullets of the spire point design. Of course other manufacturers round nose bullets may not produce these results (comparatively slightly lower pressures).
I can get 2600 fps with any of my 250 grain jacketed bullets with Reloder 15 (and to date ONLY Reloader 15!!!). Beyond this velocity up to 2650 fps is still reasonable but approaching on the ragged edge of practical hunting use in a variety of temperatures and where reliable functioning is paramount.
I tested and used other powders for years before I tried Reloder 15. They did not give me much over 2400 fps in some cases (IMR 4064, IMR 3031) and 2500(+) for others (AA 2015) before evidencing excess pressure signs. They are good performers in their own right but do not give the near "338 Win. mag." type ballistics and energy possible out of the old plain jane 35 Whelen with Reloader 15. One other powder that may work almost as well may be WW748. A friend has used it to reach comparable power levels with acceptable pressures. But he found it lacked the accuracy in his gun. I will have to try some.
All my 35 Whelen load development was with my Remington Classic Model 700 with a factory tube (22"), and with my Custom 98 with a 20" Shilen tube. The Shilen tube is "fast", I guess, since velocities are close between the two regardless of the two inch length difference. Also, a friend's Remington 7400 semi in 35 Whelen bears out the same results with Reloder 15 (and incidentally, cycled well with full pressure loads into the 2630fps realm with Reloader 15 and 250 grain spire points - but not the round nose). I now have my own 7400 and have begun testing loads with it (see table below).
Click on the link below to view 35 Whelen data recommended by Alliant, manufacturer of Reloder 15 and take note of the pressures listed for maximum loads with it. They are a slight bit on the low side of max. I've found, in my Whelens, that I can safely increase the recommemded maximum charge weights for Reloder 15 (to get velocities with 250 grs. described above). Be careful working up loads and PAY ATTENTION to any signs of excessive pressure.
Finally, in case it isn't obvious, without an accurate chronograph you can forget about trying to develop the highest velocity loads that are safe for your rifle. Every individual combination of rifle and cartridge components is a law unto itself in terms of pressures and velocity. Trust me on this if you are new at this stuff, often enough combinations can give velocity results that are very suprising (significantly slower or faster than expected from accepted published load data velocities). Therefore, ONLY with a decent chronograph do you have any sense of reality as to "actual" (as opposed to "imagined") performance.
Here we are talking about safely wringing out MAXIMUM hunting horsepower out of the necked up common "ought 6" case (very close to two tons of energy at the rifle's business end). You must read every possible indication of pressure as well as record carefully chrony results. Quit shovelling in more powder BEFORE any signicant failure of brass occurs. The most I have ever experienced in over fifteen years of this type of experimental loading is about 3 primers that dropped out after an action was opened after firing and the very occasional slightly sticky action to open - both usually indicative of excessive pressures. Of course, these were not my settled on hunting loads but "experimental" loads. No hunting load should ever be close to producing such unreliable and potentially dangerous shenanigans! Here is a thoughtful article on this topic of max pressures
In my way of thinking, accuracy analysis logically follows this initial development work - if you are developing loads for hunting horsepower (not just target shooting).
4.3cc LEE DIPPER AND RELODER 15 - a happy combination?
I find that careful use of this 4.3cc dipper size can give me approximate charge weights of ReLoder 15 as follows;
57.5 grains (scooped through powder and carded off level)
60.5 grains (scooped through powder, shaken sideways slightly, but left slightly rounded)
62 grains (scooped through powder and left heaping with as much as possible)
A look over my load notes (all scale weighed unless noted otherwise) show that this 4.3cc dipper may be used judiciously (read stay back from max loads) to minimize the work of reloading many rounds for practice purposes for example. Works well with some other powders too when thoughtfully and carefully used.
As an accuracy side note, Reloder 15 has proven accurate with a variety of 35 cal. rifles. Recently, a good friend was developing loads for his Reminton 673 guide rifle 350 Rem. Magnum (often called the ballistic twin to the 35 whelen). He was using WW748 and getting good velocity (2800fps plus realm) with his 225 grain bullets (Sierra, Barnes and Nosler) but accuracy was poor . He phoned me to say that he would barter/sell/dump all these bullets to me since he couldn't get his standard of acceptable accuracy with them. Of course I agreed to take them off his hands. But then he tried full charges of Reloder 15 and got excellent accuracy (sub MOA 3 shot groups with the 225s). The sad ending of this story (play the violin here) is that I didn't get a new supply of 225s for my own shooting fun.
Following here are some experimental loads fired in my 35s. I'm keeping the loading results in separate tables for each of my rifles.
35 WHELEN (standard chamber) REMINGTON Model 700 Classic - 22" barrel (3x9 Ruko) Loads here "not recommended" to others for use
- read disclaimer above carefully
56/IMR 4064
250 Hornady SP no crimp 3.250 COAL
2399, 2420fps, ----ft.lbs
OK pressures
64/ReL 15
250 Hornady SP no crimp 3.400 COAL
2643, 2661, 2697fps, ----ft.lbs
consider as OVER MAX load, slight scuffing, bolt lift OK, lots in neck, 1/16" to lands
59.5/REL15
250 Hornady RN 3.250 COAL WLR
- with no crimp 2541, 2535, 2539fps, - with a factory crimp 2549fps, ----ft.lbs
- accuracy yet to be tested
66.5/ReL17
250 Hornady RN 3.300" COAL - about 1/4" jump to the lands - RP brass with WLRM - temp. 10 C
2497fps - with no crimp - compressed load
- feeds slick - easy extraction - accuracy yet to be tested
62ReL17/2393 round edge primers
63.5ReL17/2422 round edge primers
65ReL17/2475 round edge primers
67.5ReL17/2559 flattened primers
68.5ReL17/2590,2612,2594 -flattened primers but no ejector imprinting or scuffing - very slight case head expansion just beginning to be measurable
64/ReL 15
250 Speer Hot Core no crimp 3.400 COAL
2658fps, ----ft.lbs
consider as OVER MAX load, slight scuffing, bolt lift OK, too little in neck
34.5/SR4759
200 Hornady 200 SP no crimp 3.200 COAL
2183fps, ----ft.lbs
reduced load, very moderate pressure fun to shoot. 35 Rem ballistics with pointed bullet - with softer bullet would make good deer load
62/ReL 15
225 Sierra SPBT no crimp 3.270 COAL
2652, 2679fps, ----ft.lbs
near top load
Remington Factory Load
250 grain Soft Point (RN) #R35WH2
2361 fps, ----ft.lbs
chronographed for comparison
55/ReL 15
286 gr. Hornady SP/RP (resized from 9.3) - no crimp - 3.370 COAL with approx .030" to lands
2309 fps, ----ft.lbs
54/ReL 15 -????fps
- 4 shots into 2 3/8" at 200yds see target here)
52/ReL 15
310 gr. WoodleighRN firm factory crimp - 3.390" COAL with approx .085" to lands WLR
2157, 2170, 2166 fps, ----ft.lbs
- feeds slick!
- accuracy yet to be tested
50/ReL 15 -2078fps
51/ReL 15 -2110fps
Subject: Re: 310gr Woodleigh SN load data request
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 19:58:09
For the 35 Whelan.
STD primer, Fed 210. Win WLR
310gr Woodleigh SN
55-58 grains H4350 for 2230 fps
51 grains IMR4320 for 2220 fps
57 grains Reloader 15 for 2435 fps
You need a 12" twist to stabilise them in the Whelan, not sure about the Norma/
For the 358 Norma, only data we have is for Norma N202 and N204
310gr Woodleigh SN
57.6 grains N202 for 2297 fps
71 grains N204 for 2493 fps.
N202 is similar to AA2700, Vihtavuori N150.
Norma 204 is similar to H4350.
Regards,
Geoff McDonald.
WOODLEIGH BULLETS
These loads not warranted safe in any other rifles - read disclaimer above
35 WHELEN (standard chamber) REMINGTON Model 7400 Semi - 22" barrel (2x7 Redfield) Note - I no longer own this rifle Loads here not "recommended" to others for use
- read disclaimer above carefully
35 WHELEN (standard chamber) REMINGTON Model 750 Semi - 18 1/2" barrel Same rifle - with Blackhawk NRS and Rem 7400 synthetic forend Note - I no longer own this rifle Loads here not "recommended" to others for use
- read disclaimer above carefully
Remington Factory Load
250 grain Soft Point (RN) #R35WH2
2229,2254, 2230 fps, ----ft.lbs
feeds good -included for comparison
53.0C/IMR 3031
200 Hornady SP RP brass light roll crimp 3.110 COAL
2535fps av. , ----ft.lbs
feeds -OK accuracy very poor but stock was hurting my cheek badly using iron sights
53.0C/IMR 3031
200 Remingtom PSP_CL RP brass light roll crimp 3.050 COAL
2535fps av. , ----ft.lbs
feeds -OK accuracy very poor but stock was hurting my cheek badly using iron sights
59.5/ReL15
250 Hornady RN Fed brass light roll crimp in canelure 3.250 COAL
2396, 2398, 2403, 2392 fps ----ft.lbs
feeds well accuracy not great - see target C. Fraser's loads
35 WHELEN (standard chamber) REMINGTON Model 7600 Pump - 22" barrel (2.5X Leupold M8) Note - I no longer own this rifle Loads here not "recommended" to others for use
- read disclaimer above carefully
58/ReL15
Hornady 250RN Interlock 3.250" approx 1/4" jump to lands
2365 fps (-4C)
light roll crimp in canulure 3/4" group two shots @ 100yds. 59.5ReL15 gave 2381fps (-4C)
58/ReL15
Hornady 250SP Interlock - 3.340" COAL to just clear ejection port if unfired - approx .150" jump to lands
2406 fps (-4C)
- no crimp - 59.5ReL15 gave 2430fps (-4C) - 1 1/4" group three shots @ 100yds.
35 WHELEN (standard chamber) REMINGTON Model 7600 Pump CARBINE - 18 1/2" barrel (1X4 Leupold VariX-II) Loads here not "recommended" to others for use
- read disclaimer above carefully
58/ReL15 (weighed)
- Hornady 250RN Interlock - Federal 210M - 3.250" - no crimp
2324, 2297 fps 17 Celcius
- acceptable iron sight accuracy - (same load with 59.5/ReL15 except with light roll crimp - ????fps)
59.5/ReL15 (weighed)
- Hornady 250SP Interlock - Federal 210M - no crimp - 3.320" COAL to just clear ejection port if unfired
2392 fps 17 Celcius
- acceptable iron sight accuracy - 58/ReL15 gave 2351fps
59.5/ReL15 (weighed) - about all the powder I can get in at this COAL without modifying bullet tip
- Nosler 225 Ballistic Tip - Federal 210M - no crimp - 3.320" COAL to just clear ejection port if unfired
RP 30-06 brass consistent - max hunting load 53/AA2015br gave 2489, 2501, 2507fps
65/ReL15
Hornady 250 SP (#3520) COAL 3.370 WLR
2665,2650,2642fps 3934 ft.lbs.
- consider as OVER MAX load RP 35 Whelen brass consistent - max hunting load slight extractor groove imprint cut tip off to fit magazine as required 63.5/ReL15/2572 64 ReL/2567 65.6/ReL15/2674,2666
My rifle in this calibre (see pic just below) is built on a VZ 24 Mauser 98 action with a 24" light sporter barrel of unknown pedigree (twist 1 in 14"). The stock is a Butler Creek composite with a decently thick and soft recoil pad. The gun is quite light. Wearing a 3x9x32 Tasco it weighs in at only 7lbs. 13 oz. empty. In order to acquire this rifle I horse traded away two other rifles ( a model 600 Mohawk in .222 and a model 70 Winchester in 308).
Preliminary analysis of this arm has revealed some good things I think. Feeding "seems" excellent with dummy rounds and limited testing (Ackley improved rounds can have problems feeding). It has a single stage trigger which seems fairly crisp. It may be a modified military one (hope not) or an after market one (I'll know of course when I take it apart for a look one day). After the trigger breaks however, there is alot of over travel. So I may look into installing a stop screw of some kind (?).
The magazine box is long and the throat suitable to that also. COALs of 3.380" are possible with the longer bullets I have - and maybe even 3.400".
Making a 1st dummy round, I seated a 225 Nosler Partition out at 3.365 COAL (only .272" in the neck however) and had about .045" jump to the lands. This is a pretty short bullet and probably would be better to seat somewhere around 3.285 COAL for about a calibre in the neck and a jump to the lands of about .125". I'll probably try this COAL or maybe 3.300 to begin my load development with this bullet. Accuracy does not always suffer with significant freebore situations. It can I guess - but not in most cases I think. I have some good input to support my view on that. Shooting should tell the tale on this gun.
I have around 45 fire formed 35 whelen Remington cases that came with the gun. Some of it looks a bit tired (slight cracks and tarnished). So I will be experimenting with fire forming some new stuff using Herco (since I have a can of surplus), corn meal and wax. I plan to report my results here.
Feb. 3rd/05 Update: Report on fire forming - used 7.5 grains Herco [Note - far too little - read on], filled an RP 30-06 once fired case with corn meal to within a 1/4" of the mouth and then jammed mouth into a parafin canning wax block to make a seal for mouth. When I fired it off it sounded and felt like my 222. It worked pretty well - sort of. No doubt that a 35 whelen AI popped out. The neck and shoulder and about 3/4" behind the shoulder filled out perfectly. I could easily slide a 35 cal bullet into the mouth with no resistance and some side play - just like a normal fired case. It measures 2.471". The shoulder seems quite well enough defined but not quite as sharp at the corners as the used cases supplied with my gun.
However there were some deficiencies. The main case taper behind this point (3/4" back of the shoulder) seems to dish in and then back out again nearer the case rim. If I hold a straight edge to the side of the case I can see about .002 light under the middle of this section. You can feel it with your finger tips if you sqeeze the case and slide along it. I may need a little more powder (rounded primer was very slightly protruding) Maybe if I had used a 35 Whelen case (instead of 30-06) the energy used to blow out the neck would have formed the case taper better. More to test before I go at reforming 50 or 100 new cases with this method.
[Note - fireforming problems corrected now since I've settled on using 16grs Herco (1.9cc Lee dipper leveled) with a 2.8cc Lee dipper level of corn meal tapped slightly to settle it, and the neck sealed with a little white wood glue or else a 1/4 sheet bathroom tissue wad for a plug (I found wax a pain to use). Leave for a day or more for glue to set. Upon firing the primers are not flattened and not protruding so pressures are reasonable and form cases satisfactorily.]
Incidentally I tested for adequate head spacing before I loaded this concoction and was pleasantly rewarded. AI chambers are supposed to head space about .004" shorter than normal and mine seems to be like this. When I put the 30-06 case into the chamber and began to carefully close the bolt (sans primer, powder, or bullet of course), I could feel the resistanceof the case shoulder beginning to be compressed when my bolt was about 1 1/2" away from being closed. I stopped right there and did not close the bolt. I ejected the empty and had a look at the shoulder. Happy day! There was a nice little bright line circling the brass about mid-shoulder indicating to me that this chamber probably has been properly head spaced - AKA the wise dictates of P.O. Ackley on this topic.
Another aside - My 35 AI has the old school Mauser controlled round feeding - great when battling a man eating Simba while reloading laying upside down - but crummy with my herco sweetened corn meal marvels. I had to take the bolt completely out of the gun to place each round on the bolt face and then return it to the rifle [Now I have learned to place the round to be formed just resting inside the rear receiver bridge and actually place the bolt face down on top of it and into the receiver in one motion - saves trouble and time]. Then I carefully would slide it into the chamber. Without the bullet in the mouth to steer the cartridge into the gate, I couldn't make my corn meal marvels feed from the mag box below.
March 5, 2005 - Today I started load development for this gun. I fired off some rounds with the 200 grain Hornady spire points and some with 225 grain Nosler partitions. I used only Reloder 15 and here are my results for my first outing with this rifle. There were no sticky bolt lifts or other signs of excess pressures. I am quite pleased as I can see potential with the 250s also. Also I always just publish the chrony reading taken approximately 10 feet from the muzzle. If you want to add 10fps to each of my velocities you will probably be closer to the actual muzzle velocity.
35 Whelen (Ackley Improved - 40 degrees chamber) Custom 98 VZ 24 Mauser - 24" barrel (1x4 Bushnell) Loads here not "recommended" to others for use
- read disclaimer above carefully
64/ReL 15
200 Hornady Spire Point no crimp 3.250" COAL approx .125" jump to lands
2821fps ----ft.lbs
WLRM, RP 35 Whelen brass. I started at 60 grains (2643fps with very slight extractor imprint) and worked up (61/2675, 62/2684, 63/2757, "over the top" - 65/2809, 66/2835, 66/2853). Near top.
64.5/ReL 15
225 Nosler Partition no crimp 3.365" COAL
2829fps, 2827fps, 2845fps Consistent and powerful 4041 ft.lbs (corrected average at the muzzle!
WLRM, RP 35 Whelen brass, started at 59 grains (2602fps) and worked up (60/2665, 61/2693, 62/2699, 63/2780, 64/2807 and "over the top" - 65/2776, 66/2762). Brass perfect - not even a hint of ejector slot imprint. Not at max.
66/ReL 15
225 Sierra no crimp 3.300" COAL approx .065" jump to lands
2839fps ----ft.lbs
WLRM, RP 35 Whelen brass, Not at max.- little of bullet holding in neck (.220") worked up 64/2743fps, 65/2770fps
62/ReL 15
225 Nosler Ballistic Tip no crimp 3.385" COAL - perfect for my mag
2675fps, 2715fps (3019fps - discount as probable false reading), approx .250" jump to lands
WLRM, RP 35 Whelen brass, Not at max. Heavily compressed and bullet holding in neck .335".
64/ReL 15
225 Nosler Ballistic Tip altered with tip cut off to bullet length of 1.200" no crimp 3.370" COAL (perfect for my mag)
2821 fps approx .065" jump to lands ----ft.lbs
WLRM, RP 35 Whelen brass, Not at max. - little of bullet holding in neck (approx .187").
62/ReL 15
250 Speer Hot Core no crimp 3.375" COAL
2637fps ----ft.lbs
WLRM, RP 35 Whelen brass, started at 61 grains (got 2493fps and 63/2570fps - "over the top?). Still not at max very faint extractor imprint
62/ReL 15
250 Hornady RN Very old stock (pre interlock) no crimp 3.330" COAL
2602fps ----ft.lbs
WLRM, Fire formed Win. 30-06 brass, pressures OK but up there
30/SR4759
287 LeadRN GC Lyman 358009 slight roll crimp 3.120" COAL
1814fps,1849fps, 1843fps easy on the shoulder ----ft.lbs
WLR, fire formed RP 35 Whelen brass, neck sized only - engraves slightly on closing bolt on bore riding nose (.352" dia.) for about .140" - 2.8cc Lee dipper scooped rounded (not carded off) gives 30 grs. SR4759 Pressures OK but will not feed in my 35 Ackley ImprovedI mauser at all!!!
- I found CCI primers too hard (my best guess) so switched to WLR
- all of my 356 Win. loads tested in my Marlin 336ER with 20" barrel
- velocities listed are my instrumental readings approx. 10 feet from muzzle
- I tried 308 cases (necked up) being VERY CAREFUL with the headspacing issues(started with once fired cases and pushed the shoulders back with my FL sizing dies JUST ENOUGH to close the lever - no more) and potential differences in case capacities. However, I got one misfire when hunting a good size bear (never from the bench when testing - ???) so never used them again. My gun's hammer spring checked out as per factory specs. It could have been the CCI primers (?) but losing a bear soured me off 308 cases - at least for now. To date I'm still not really sure in what detail of this load was the culprit.
356 WINCHESTER Marlin Model 336ER - 20" barrel (2.5X Simmons) Loads here not "recommended" to others for use
- read disclaimer above carefully
250 Speer Hot Core altered with tip cut off to FN configuration (246 grains) Lee factory crimp 2.590 COAL
2100, 2119fps ----ft.lbs
CCI, necked up 307 brass
43/4064 IMR
220 Speer FN Lee factory crimp just behind canulure 2.590 COAL
2064, 2100fps ----ft.lbs
WLR, necked up 307 brass
28/SR4759
200 Hornady Spire Point, 2.610 COAL
2106, 2104, 2104, 2083fps ----ft.lbs
not safe in tube magazine but potential is here with 200 RN or FN bullet for consistent and effective light deer load [yes - see 200RN loads now immediately below]
28.5/SR 4759
200 RemRN Core-Lokt Lee factory crimp 2.590 COAL
2050,2089,2091fps ----ft.lbs
CCI 200, necked up 307 brass, nearing max, accuracy to be determined
41/AA2015BR
200 RemRN Core-Lokt Lee factory crimp 2.590 COAL
2061fps ----ft.lbs
CCI 200, necked up 307 brass, moderate pressure, (42grs/2257fps - pressure OK)
46/IMR4895
200 RemRN Core-Lokt Lee factory crimp 2.590 COAL
2183,2196,2198fps ----ft.lbs
CCI 200, necked up 307 brass, very moderate pressure, accurate consistent load, 1 1/2" groups
Winchester Factory
200
2189, 2225, 2245fps ----ft.lbs
Win. Factory
Winchester Factory
250
2004, 2081fps ----ft.lbs
Win. Factory - no longer available
43/H322
220 Speer FN
2310fps ----ft.lbs
-have not tried this one - source is Layne Simpson fav load
358 WINCHESTER BROWNING BLR - 20" barrel Note - I no longer own this rifle Loads here not "recommended" to others for use
- read disclaimer above carefully
29/SR4759
200 Hornady spire no crimp 2.700 COAL
2150, 2117, 2102fps ----ft.lbs
WLR, necked up RP308 brass, OK pressures, no pin extrusion, good extraction try a half grain more for a light deer load
29.5/SR4759
200 RN Rem SP_CL factory crimp 2.600 COAL
2140, 2141 fps ----ft.lbs
WLR, necked up WW308 brass, low pressures, no pin extrusion, good extraction, good feeding in BLR try another half grain more for a light deer load
43.5/AA2015BR very slight powder shaking
225 Sierra BT no crimp 2.780 COAL
2418, 2415fps ----ft.lbs
WLR, necked up Win308 brass, OK pressures, slight cratering around firing pin
44.5/IMR3031 compressed
225 Sierra BT no crimp 2.785 COAL
2340, 2337fps ----ft.lbs
WLR, necked up Win308 brass, OK pressures, slight cratering around firing pin
44/IMR3031
250 Speer HC no crimp 2.820 COAL (may be too long for mag - check)
2287, 2272fps ----ft.lbs
WLR, necked up Win308 brass, OK pressures, slight cratering around firing pin
43/AA2015BR powder shakes slightly
225 Ballistic Tip no crimp 2.950 COAL cut back polymer tip to fit magazine
2424, 2421fps ----ft.lbs
WLR, necked up Win308 brass, OK pressures, slight cratering around firing pin
40.5/AA2015BR powder shakes slightly
250 HornadyRN Old stock (pre intelock) no crimp 2.795 COAL
2157, 2164, 2185fps ----ft.lbs
WLR, necked up Fed308 brass, OK pressures, slight pin extrusion, primers still rounded
----
310 WoodleighRN new stock
----fps ----ft.lbs
NOTE - 2.830" is just kissing the lands!
47/H4895
225 Partition
2510fps ----ft.lbs
- not my load and have not tried it - source is Layne Simpson - his fav for his Win. mod. 88 lever gun in 358
51/IMR 4895
225 Sierra SPBT
2550 fps +/- Measured velocity ----ft.lbs
- treat as over max - not my load and have not tried it JohnnyJ's fav Browning BLR with 20" bbl Win 358 brass WLRM primers
I now care and feed for three different rifles in 350 Remington Magnum - a Remington M660, a M600, and a Ruger 77 Mk11. See pics and other details following.
My Model 660
My model 660 (see pic below) is bronze bedded now. I prepared 50 cases and primed them with WLRM primers. 2005 is the year I have decided to experiment with magnum primers. Initial results are good.
According to an article by Layne Simpson in Shooting Times, "When Remington discontinued the standard Model 600 in 1967, it had built only 80,944 units. The Magnum version is even scarcer: only 13,142 were made. Used Model 660s are not gathering dust in the gun racks of gun stores across the country either. When it was discontinued in 1971, production numbers stopped at 45,332 for the standard version and 5204 for the Magnum."
For an experiment, I also tried my new Lee FL sizing die to reform some 7mm Rem Mag brass to 350 Rem Mag. It worked great - even with old Dominion brass. No losses but I have a small problem however. The tiny vent hole that Lee drilled in the shoulder area of my die seems to want to gouge a small furrow in the brass as it pushes back the case shoulder. I'm going to try to remove any burrs at this hole (if they exist) with 4 ought steel wool spun ahead of an empty 350 case held in my Lee trimmer chuck. Let you know how it turns out [note - never needed to do this - read on]. I'm told RCBS dies don't have this vent on the shoulder. Hornady - I must check that when I get a chance. (I checked and found Hornady "new dimension" dies [260 REM] have this vent on the shoulder too so they probably all do). NOTE - PROBLEM SOLVED - just bought a second set of dies, used RCBS dies with no vent hole in the FL sizing die. It works well, reforming 7mm rem mag brass in one operation of my press handle (sans taper/depriming pin). The newly formed case necks may be too thick at the shoulder juncture. I'll check that another day before loading any of course.
March 12, 2005 - I just got my Remington 660 back today. It's professionally bronze bedded and ready to shoot - when I find time.
350 REMINGTON MAGNUM REMINGTON Model 660 - 20" barrel Loads here not "recommended" to others for use
- read disclaimer above carefully
61/ReL 15
250 Speer Hot Core no crimp 2.800" COAL
2547fps ----ft.lbs
WLRM, virgin RP brass worked up - 59/2328, 60/2514,
62/ReL 15
250 Hornady RN no crimp 2.800" COAL
2556fps ----ft.lbs
WLRM, virgin RP brass, pressures OK (but 63/2611 is over max - ejector imprint - case rim swelled to .510 [usually .508] on one firing from .505 virgin dia.),
59.5/ReL 15 -similar to load immediately above
250 Hornady RN (new interlock) taper crimped 2.820" COAL just fits 660 magazine
2440,2421,2454,fps ----ft.lbs
WLRM, -pressures OK -feeds very well -presently my favoured iron sight close work round in light 6 1/2 lb. gun -dip loads with 4.3cc Lee dipper scooped thru and shaken sideways and left slightly rounded
62/ReL 15
225 Nosler Partition no crimp 2.800 COAL
2624fps ----ft.lbs
WLRM, virgin RP brass, OK pressures Worked up from 59/2405, 60/2489, 61/2562,
62/ReL 15
225 Sierra no crimp 2.800 COAL
2631fps ----ft.lbs
WLRM, virgin RP brass, OK pressures Worked up from 60/2436, 61/2552, 62.5/2611("over the top?)
60/ReL 15
225 Nosler Ballistic Tip no crimp 2.970 COAL cut tip off to make 2.800 COAL to fit mag
2592fps ----ft.lbs
WLRM, virgin RP brass, OK pressure
58/IMR3031
200 Remington PSP_CL light roll crimp in canelure 2.730 COAL
2751fps close to factory duplication load ----ft.lbs
WLR, virgin RP brass, OK pressure 59/IMR3031/2747fps (with moderate pressure still)
350 REMINGTON MAGNUM REMINGTON Model 600 - 18 1/2" barrel Note - I no longer own this rifle
A short Video of my M600 "Maggie" holding back - waiting for a BIGGER bear
Read about the M600 "Maggie" Loads here not "recommended" to others for use
- read disclaimer above carefully
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- - -
This compact shooter weighs in at only 6 1/2 lbs sans scope
I really like this little "Maggie". It's fun to shoot. - little sister to my M660 above I guess.
59.5/ReL15
250 Hornady RN - (new interlock) - ogive slightly down in case mouth - light taper crimp 2.820" COAL just fits 600 magazine
2479,2461,2498fps ----ft.lbs
WLRM, -pressures OK -feeds very well very slightly FASTER than my longer barrel M660 above (why - ???)
60/ReL15 - Lee 4.3cc dipped and left rounded
250 Speer Hot Core 2.815"
???? fps est. 2500MV ----ft.lbs
WLRM, - accurate - 3 shots into 1" at 100yds - 3 shots into 3" at 200yds (to view target click here) - good load for all my 350RMs - this 600 is scope sighted (2.5x Leupold)
in for this load
FYI - I have yet to try these myself but below are Layne Simpson's published fav loads for his REMINGTON M600/350 REM. MAG. - 18 1/2" barrel See Shooting Times (July 1989) - Author's Notes say that these are maximum in author's gun but may be excessive for others - reduce by 10% to start in other guns
These loads not warranted safe in any other rifles - read disclaimer above
58/H4895
200 Rem SP C-L Rem 9 1/2
2650fps - average of 5 shots clocked 12' from muzzle
Rem brass
53/H4895
250 Speer Spitzer Rem 9 1/2
2477fps - average of 5 shots clocked 12' from muzzle
I own one these Ruger stainless rifles - model KM77RFP in 350 Rem Mag. Ruger announced them in 2004 but never shipped any until February 2005 I think. Mine was ordered about a year ago (spring 2004) I think. The wheels turn slowly sometimes at Ruger. I think I may have the only one in Canada [note - this comment made in March 2005 and a few months later I know of two more in Canada]. It will probably be a collectable someday - if I don't wreck its collector's value by rechambering it to - oh, say - 350WSM (rechambering for that wildcat just involves setting the barrel back a thread or two I think) (further note -YES -this rifle is now living life as a 350WSM -click here for details) It seems like a very good rifle in most respects except for it's shiny finish (I can have it bead blasted to matt finish for $100 CAN) and its mushy trigger. With a trigger pull gauge we found it factory set at 64 ounzes which is exactly 4 lbs. That's pretty good. But there is alot of mushy creep in the pull before it fires. I don't know if I'll be able to master it. I can't tell when it will "let off". I guess an after market trigger will be necessary to fix it. Incidentally, some years back I shot a couple of deer with one of these model rifles in 30-06 before I sold it (I planned to rebore to 35 Whelen but never did). I loved it - even with its older and less handsome "buck rogers" style stock. So I'm pretty sure that this model in 350 Rem mag will be great too. The mag box allows COALs of - 2.885". That's an extra .085" of usable neck volume over my little model 660. However, the throat is not as long (but still is long). But it does allow seating of most (but not all) bullets to 2.885" to precisely fit the mag and to maximize space in the boiler room. This rifle does NOT have as much freebore as my 660 does. I'm having trouble with feeding from the mag. The feeding hasn't smoothed out with use so I have to have it worked on by a pro. [Ellwood Epps has sent it to Ruger service centre now to repair feeding - six weeks they said][Rifle came back and STILL doesn't feed - so now (Dec. 06) in process of making it into a 350WSM - futher note - done that] The rifle itself weighs only 7 lbs. 3 oz. sans rings and scope and unloaded. With a Leupold VariX III 1.5 x 5 scope mounted in factory rings (which weigh a hefty 5 ozs themselves) - it weighs 8 lbs. 4 oz. unloaded.
350 REMINGTON MAGNUM RUGER Model 77 Mk11 - serial # 789 746xx - 22" barrel (1.5x5 Leupold) (taped in green masking tape) Loads here not "recommended" to others for use
- read disclaimer above carefully
61/ReL 15
225 Nosler Ballistic Tip slight taper crimp 2.895 COAL to fit Ruger mag
2649fps ----ft.lbs
WLRM, virgin RP brass, approx .170" to lands, some ogive down in case mouth OK pressures about all the powder I can get in 60/ReL 15/2640fps,
64/ReL 15
225 Nosler Ballistic Tip no crimp 3.030 COAL cut tip back to 2.895 to fit Ruger mag
2795fps, ----ft.lbs near top load significant case head expansion (.511/.531) but no ejector slot imprint yet
WLRM, virgin RP brass, approx. .060" to lands, all of case neck holding bullet bearing surface 60/ReL 15/2626fps 61/ReL 15/2677fps 62/ReL 15/2726fps 63/ReL 15/2713fps
63/ReL 15
225 Nosler Partition no crimp 2.895 COAL perfect fit in Ruger mag approx .065" to lands
2728fps ----ft.lbs
WLRM, virgin RP brass, OK pressures Worked up from 60/ReL 15/2623, 61/ReL 15/2623, 62/ReL 15/2670
64/ReL 15
225 Sierra BT no crimp 2.880 COAL VERY close to lands (approx .015")
2710fps ----ft.lbs
WLRM, RP brass, quite mild pressure still - little case head expansion (.5085/.5293) pressures, 62/2693, 63/ReL 15/2728
62/ReL 15
250 Speer Hot Core no crimp 2.895 COAL to fit Ruger mag but won't feed (???)
2633fps, ----ft.lbs virgin brass swelled to .5105" on 1st firing (from .505") near top load but no ejector slot imprint yet
WLRM, virgin RP brass, 60/ReL 15/2514fps 61/ReL 15/2562fps 2nd firing at 62.5/ReL 15/2621fps, 2652fps, 2656fps and expanded to .5113/.5315
65/ReL 15
200 Hornady Spire Point no crimp 2.840 COAL approx .020" to lands
2702fps, ----ft.lbs mild pressures [dipped 62/ReL15/ gave 2624,2654, and 1.875" 100 yd. 3 shot group with no case head expansion]
WLRM, RP brass,
58/IMR3031
200 Remington PSP_CL light roll crimp in canelure 2.730 COAL
2809 fps close to factory duplication load ----ft.lbs
WLR, virgin RP brass, OK pressure 59/IMR3031/2797fps, 60/IMR3031/2815 (nearing top pressure)
350 REMINGTON MAGNUM - same exact make and model but different rifle from above - RUGER Model 77 Mk11 - 22" barrel - 2x7 Redfield - serial # 791 592xx Note - I no longer own this rifle Loads here "not recommended" to others for use
- read disclaimer above carefully
59.5/ReL 15
250 Hornady RN (new interlock) taper crimped 2.820" COAL approx .200" to lands
2551, 2567, 2520 ----ft.lbs
WLRM, - my first three shots at 100 went into 1 9/16" -feeds very well but only with three down in the mag - this load can also be used in my other Remington rifles -dip loads with 4.3cc Lee dipper scooped thru and shaken sideways and left slightly rounded
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200 Barnes TSX COAL - 2.810 (2.860 COAL is just touching lands) Barnes recommends .050" jump to lands for accuracy so a COAL of 2.810" may be optimum
---- fps ----ft.lbs
- have yet to try loading and shooting this bullet -but will it feed in this rifle?
REMINGTON Model 7600 Pump CARBINE - 18 1/2" barrel (1X4 Leupold VariX-II) 
I own one these Ruger stainless rifles - model KM77RFP in 350 Rem Mag. Ruger announced them in 2004 but never shipped any until February 2005 I think. Mine was ordered about a year ago (spring 2004) I think. The wheels turn slowly sometimes at Ruger. I think I may have the only one in Canada [note - this comment made in March 2005 and a few months later I know of two more in Canada]. It will probably be a collectable someday - if I don't wreck its collector's value by rechambering it to - oh, say - 350WSM (rechambering for that wildcat just involves setting the barrel back a thread or two I think) (further note -YES -this rifle is now living life as a 350WSM -
